Systematic Theology 1


Journal Assignment 10
November 10, 2009, 1:09 am
Filed under: Journal Assignments

What, according to McCabe, is the relationship between Jesus’ death and God’s forgiveness of our sins? How does his view compare with Williams’, Jenson’s, and Gunton’s?


10 Comments so far
Leave a comment

In the beginning of McCabe’s argument he states by way of quoting some ideas of Adorno and Horkheimer. Adorno believed that “There can be no justice without a resurrection of the dead” (McCabe 42). This idea was brought up because in order for there to be complete justice the people who have already died would have to have a chance too. If there was resurrection of the dead then we would be able have true justice for forth. Otherwise we would find ourselves with an unfair unjust God, letting some people go, and others he made them still accept the “just” reward coming to them, good or bad. When Jesus died we find that Jesus really did make a way for the resurrection of the dead! He died himself and rose again. It is possible. McCabe even hits on this here as we can read: “This innocent sufferer has attained the certitude of hope: there is a God, and God can create justice in a way that we cannot conceive, yet we can begin to grasp it through faith. Yes, there is a resurrection of the flesh” (McCabe 43). Again Jesus has, as long as we are grasping it through faith made a way to have a resurrection of the flesh. The relationship between his death and the forgiveness of our sins lies within true justice and grace such as, “the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us forever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love” (McCabe 47). Here we see that yes our foul works do burn up in His presence, but because of the grace given to us as our foundation we are still able to make it in. Jesus death created a possibility for a true foundation of grace in the midst of a loving fiery justice that is in the eyes of Christ.
Now Williams view is more one of God’s love prevailing through so much misery and crucifixion that his love is shown to go beyond any sin we could have ever committed, and we see McCabe’s view as more of a fiery burning of all of our terrible building, and yet a remaining of a foundation of Christ’s grace. These two views are a bit different but in the end I believe they accomplish the same thing. Gunton’s view was of Jesus obedience to death on the cross as a victory gaining authority and power, ending in a complete project to perfect all of creation. Definitely a different view, but also gets the job done. Lastly, I do believe that Jenson is arguing that Jesus was relating to humanity as much as possible through his death, therefore in relating to us he is now able to forgive us of our sins by faith because he is the one that ultimately overcame death. This is yet another different perspective other than McCabe’s, not necessarily wrong, but another great perspective.

Comment by Aaron Johnson

Mccabe states that through the work of Jesus, we see Jesus restoring broken people to wholeness (60). Moreover, he speaks on the issue of how Jesus looks on others. Many of the people during that time could be possessed or sick, but somehow they knew within themselves that Jesus still loved them. To Mccabe, it would seem that he believes that Jesus’ death meant forgiveness and freeing from the powers that possessed people. Ultimately, it seems like he believes that Jesus’ death would mean triumph over evil and the powers that influence the lives of someone. Mccabe’s belief should certainly not be looked at as God’s wrath being poured out, so Jesus had to die. He states that wrath was poured out “especially against those who oppress and exploit…the poor and unprotected; the widow and the orphan (61). Mccabe’s belief is different than how Williams would look at it. Williams believes that the purposes of God are peace and praise, reconciliation and delight. Jesus helped in fulfilling these purposes by dying as a sacrifice (Williams, 87). This can somehow tie in with what Mccabe says. One could takes Jesus’ work on the cross as God’s ultimate sign of love for all of humanity. We know the literal truth through the cross that “when God forgives us he doesn’t change his mind about us (61). We cannot just take his death alone as having the only meaning for Jesus, we must look at his entire life. Only by looking at his entire life are we able to “meet…someone who prays, who speaks of putting his will and his decisions at the service of his Father” (Williams, 65). 276

Comment by Mark Reyes

Jesus’ death is the remedy for this—for people having to believe in themselves because they do not believe in God’s love—because he doesn’t necessarily divide their sin from them but by bringing it within his their acceptance. “In his death, God forgives, not by changing his mind about us, but out of this manifestation of his unconditional, unchanging, eternal love, he changes our minds about him. It is because of God’s gift that we begin to think of repenting for our sin and of asking for his mercy” (61); therefore, we are not forgiven and healed because we repent, but because God shows us his love in forgiving and healing us. Without using the theological term that Jenson does, McCabe supports the concept of reconciliation in the two main aspects: “that the death is not suffered on his own account, but for others; and that it restores broken community—i.e. overcomes sin (forgiveness).” More explicitly in line with McCabe, Jenson supports that “the New Testament speaks of God’s action to reconcile us to himself, and nowhere of God’s being reconciled to us (186). Gunton also affirms McCabe’s view that “death is where man meets God’s judgment, that death itself is a form of destroying judgment” (104), supporting that God forgives us by allowing every part of us to be brought into himself—into ultimate love. Finally, Williams uses almost verbatim language to describe “Jesus as the human event (death) that reverses the flow of human self-absorption because it unconditionally opens to divine freedom” (84). All the views claim that God undid what occurred with humans, their separating themselves by changing our minds and allowing us to believe and respond. 281

Comment by Justin Begnoche

The relationship between Jesus’ death and God’s forgiveness of sins, according to McCabe, is mercy; mercy for the weak that were/are living in the chains of sin for no reason, ie. the sick, the broken, and the unloved. Jesus was/is the way out of sin and bondage. “The only remedy for this is the conviction, the faith that comes to us in Jesus: that God is a love which loves us even when we are sinners.” (60) We are all born into sin and God gave us a new, fresh life free from sin, and he did this through sacrificing his only begotten Son. There is no reason to have sorrow anymore, but to live in His freedom.
Williams sees this relationship as “the creative power re-establishing the whole world.” (95) Jesus is the symbol of love from God, to us and for us. Jensen sees Jesus’ death and God’s forgiveness of sins in the same manner as Williams, as a triumph- a means of setting things straight so we can move foreward to the eschaton without fear, shame, or doubt; we see God taking away our sins through Jesus, so we can focus our attention on creation to eschaton, the way it should have been all along before evil came into the world. Gunton says on page 63, “Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the mediator of God’s creation, returning to his own realm to reclaim it from threatened dissolution.” Page 75, “Jesus dies in the space from which God has taken away his loving presence, to the effect that he bore the just judgement of God upon sin in order that others might be freed not from all judgement, but from the judgement that brings death.” God does not want anyone to die, but to live with Him. God is sovereign. And he is a just God. Jesus’ death and God’s forgiveness of sins is the perfect example of self-sacrificing love.
word count:334

Comment by Heidi Szyntar

Mcabe believes that there is a wholeness that comes through Jesus Christ. This had been a plan that was established by God. Mcabe also lets us know that there is a great freedom that comes about that delivers humanity from the oppression of evil powers and demonic dictatorship in the world. There are two aspects of reconciliation that is described by Mcabe. The death of Jesus Christ was not suffered on His account, but for others. The second is that there is a restoration to the brokenness of community. The death of Jesus also shows God’s mercy. God had giving humanity a chance and opportunity to receive forgiveness and be made whole. This would ultimately triumph over judgment. Mcabe also believes that Jesus was and is the only way out of sin. This had been God’s mercy seat for humanity. Ultimately, God has unconditional love that had been manifested to us through Jesus Christ. Williams had some similarities but there are more differences. Williams stated that the purpose of the death of Jesus was for praise, peace and reconciliation. Also, a re-establishing of the whole world was seen through Jesus’ death. Gunter stated that Jesus was obedient all the way unto death. This also was to perfect humanity, and to destroy death. Mcabe’s statements were similar to that of Gunter’s. Jenson stated that Jesus’ death was to relate to humanity. In relating to humanity, Jesus defeated death by His divinity. This enabled humanity to be able to live above death. This was similar to Mcabe’s statements, but different. -256 words

Comment by Steven Herron

On page 44, Mcabe says “the victory beyond death doesn’t belong to the same sequence as the events before death and the death itself.” We may never settle the score or find the justice we seek and therefore, must believe that our death is not the end of the story. Since we cannot see beyond death, our hope must lie in the Father’s ability to make things right and to eventually make sense of our experiences. As for now, Jesus says that our job is to suffer and die as an act of sacrificial love. The rewards thereafter, are irrelevant and misleading. “It is through and because of his dying and rising again on the third day that our suffering and death and our sacrificial love can make sense.” (44) Mcabe states that a true victory is defeat in Christ and that we must not only die to ourselves but die and be baptized in His death. In regards to Christ’s death and the forgiveness of sins, Mcabe says that Jesus came to give His life so that He could redeem all of us. He points out not only does God love, but that we cannot describe God without describing love. In essence, Jesus is the source of all genuine love and we are loved by God because Christ is loved by God. Similarly, both Williams and Gunton describe the cross as an act making it possible for God to reconcile or perfect all of creation. In short, as Jesus overcomes death, we can be forgiven.

Comment by yelisey

It’s likely that I’m just misunderstanding the complex infrastructure of McCabe’s mind, but something that stuck out to me about his chapter “Possession and Forgiveness” was the complete lack of what might be called “abstract” cause and effect. There is no metaphysical explanation as to how the specific blood spilt or death experienced pays a ransom or thwarts a foe. (That’s not to say that either of these can’t be concretized with more deliberate semantics). Instead, from what I can gather, McCabe indicates that the Cross is a message from God to the world, not necessarily accomplishing a victory or enabling forgiveness, but demonstrating love and forgiveness in such a way that allows people’s repressed (or suppressed) fear of themselves to dragged into light. That is, God’s love as expressed by Christ’s death on the cross says to an individual that He loves them in full knowledge of their sins. These can therefore be addressed before God and the community around the individual liberated. Sanctification and love in proper relation before God and man are therefore possible for that individual.

McCabe’s view is more concentrated on the individual than the arguments of Williams, Jenson, and Gunton. The latter theologians are focusing on the grander, communal eschatological vision of reconciliation, while McCabe is speaking specifically to the liberation of the individual from fear and “possession” and becoming “true sinners.” What is well implied in McCabe is the sanctification of Christ’s action and life for those who believe on Him. The sanctification of creation—men included—is spoken of in each of the other works as part of the reconciliation that occurs through Christ and that is bringing brought about. McCabe’s view is much more concentrated on the psychological redemption of people and their self-revelation in the midst of Christ.

WC: 298

Comment by Joshua Rio

McCabe emphasizes the death of Jesus with God’s forgiveness of our sins in a somewhat different way than the other than Jenson, Gunton, and Williams. McCabe stresses that through the death and resurrection of Jesus the justness of God is confirmed in that all aspects of the human experience have been redeemed. It is a justice that is somewhat inconceivable by human logic, but can be approached through the lens of faith and hope. McCabe more so focuses on the individual being saved and redeemed, rather than (like the other authors) a focus on all of creation being saved and redeemed through Christ’s death and resurrection. Because of McCabe’s focus on the individual rather than God’s entire creation, he focuses more on the problem of personal sins. He states that it is as if God eliminates the sin in our lives, and therefore, it is only by grace that we deserve redemption. It appears to me, to be more contrasting to that of Williams, Gunton, and Jenson who stress the eschatological themes of redemption as opposed to the immediate effects that it has on humanity. The latter authors seem to focus on the big scheme, whereas McCabe seems to be focused on a micro-eschatological level.

(205)

Comment by Michael Rowley

He echoes Pauline thought which claims God reconciling everything in creation to himself. Firstly, he argues against the mistake o thinking that peace or salvation is first a matter for each individual. Here he quotes Paul’s use of koinonia meaning “fellowship” or “sharing” to reaffirm that on one level, Jesus’ death breaks down the barriers that are placed between people, and thus, allow them to live with a common unifying factor. Secondly, in relation to God’s purpose for creation is that “this new human nature that we have in common in this new creation is a nature always in movement from one to the other and back again, bestowing life on each other . . . one that is not just an absence of rivalry and conflict; it is an active condition of loving and nurturing, giving and receiving, mutuality” (102).

Comment by Sarah Meyer

I believe it is fair to say that McCabe approaches the event of Jesus’ death and God’s forgiveness in a different theological approach than that of Williams, Jenson, and Gunton. McCabe seems to focus on the tangible characteristics of the event rather than the abstract theological beliefs behind the event (of course, I could be wrong; it wouldn’t be the first time). McCabe states that “to say that Jesus rose from the dead is, among other things, to say that in spite of the fact that his love for us in obedience to his mission led to his death – or in fact because his love led to his death – he is still present to us, really present to us, present to us and loving us in his full bodily reality.” While this is true, and is a beautiful thought of the presence Jesus has with us, I am left with thinking “And…what else?” Whereas, in contrast to the tangible, Williams, Jenson, and Gunton seem to focus more on the abstract theological meanings behind this presence that we now can experience with Christ. Williams, Jenson, and Gunton in their beliefs of what the cross means for humanity focus on humanity as a whole, what the resurrection means for all of creations. In contrast, it seems like McCabe is focusing more so on what the cross and resurrection means for the individual. While both thoughts might be necessary, I am inclined to be more intrigued by the abstract ideas brought to us by Williams, Jenson, and Gunton if for no other reason than I do not understand them half the time so it stretches me, but that’s just me. (277)

Comment by Tara Charlson




Leave a comment
Line and paragraph breaks automatic, e-mail address never displayed, HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <pre> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>